I’ve had it with pool contractors, dealers and salesman. The entire pool buying experience has been a nightmare.

We (husband and I) have been trying to build an in-ground pool for more than a year and a half. We have exhausted nearly every dealer in our area.

What We are Looking For

I’m a virtual assistant and I work with real estate agents regularly. I did my due diligence in deciding whether the addition of a pool to our 2005 Florida home would be a valuable asset to the resale of the property. We live in a small, slightly upscale subdivision with larger lots but no amenities. Nearly every neighbor has a pool and when I calculated the potential resale value of the home (with the help of an appraiser), we would definitely gain significant value in the home as well as attract more buyers in a year-round warm-seasoned climate. Additionally, since most in-ground pools in my area are installed with a cage (fancy name, lanai) this outdoor, enclosed space becomes a value-added addition to any warm climate home. So my search for a pool quote included cage, pool and deck.

Looking for Quotes to Compare

I’m also a business owner dealing in client-VA contracts and quotes regularly. This is the 3rd home we have owned and the 2nd we built from scratch. I’m all about quotes and comparing amenities. I want to know what I am buying. However, that is not what the pool industry, from my perspective is all about. In fact, I’ve lost the interest of a number of pool contractors simply because I shop around and I question pricing.

Look at the Details

It is nearly impossible to compare quotes from one pool contractor/designer to another. If the homeowner does not know what it is that is being quoted many important quality construction details may slip by undetected. For example, I noticed one pool dealer quote included 3500 psi ShotKrete (the cement that is blown into a concrete pool after it is formed with rebar supports) while another was 4000 psi and yet another quoted 5000 psi. The higher number in the pressure per square inch (psi) ShotKrete, the denser the cement will be therefore, it will be more durable over time. This does not always mean that the 5000 psi pool contractor will charge more for denser cement either! But the 3500 psi pool quotes were often more expensive than the 5000 psi quotes. Another example in crafty pricing is the difference in handrail costs. I added a handrail to the quote, and the same pool handrail can vary in price from $150 to $350 as well. Same handrail design, same manufacturer, bigger markup. Sometimes the markup was so extravagant that it bordered on pure greed.

Our pool design request is very basic. We are not installing any pavers, fountains, planters, etc. We are planning a simple concrete deck but every single dealer I have encountered tries to sell you the extras no matter how hard (and loud) you state that this is a basic pool. It is very annoying and pushy and creates a tenuous relationship. No consumer wants to feel pressured into making a decision.

Unprofessional Behavior

Last week a pool dealer emailed me that prices were increasing April 1st and after that date the pool would cost $2000 more. The original quote was offered for less than 30 days. Most quotes are ‘good’ for one month. Abominable.

When I have asked dealers to itemize the quote, I have either been brushed off or have had to wait months for the information. They simply do not want to itemize but there is no other way to compare apples to apples. When I asked several dealers if they would modify the contract many pulled out before I could finish my sentence. For example, I wanted to add some type of safeguard clause that if the pool was not finished in a reasonable amount of time (I did not specify any timeframe) barring the rainy season (or mother nature in general) that there would be some type of penalty. I never heard from that dealer again after working with him for over 3 months on a pool design!

I Want to Know You are Paying the Subcontractors

Same dealer also did not want to add to the contract my request that I receive copies of the payment receipts made to the subcontractors. With so many pool dealers closing down due to the poor housing economy, it’s imperative that contractors pay the subs because if they are not paid, then a lien can be placed on the homeowner even though the homeowner made payment to the contractor. I never heard from this guy again. Actually, his salesman sent an email (he could not even call me) offering stale rhetoric that he was unable to reach a mutual agreement and that they terminated all negotiations. Crummy way to do business. Why not talk to me? I do not bite. In fact I wanted to develop a relationship with the dealer and build trust.

Use the Opportunity to Educate the Consumer

Being a good sales person involves educating the consumer. When potential clients question my virtual assistance per hour fee, I educate them on the benefits of working with a VA as opposed to hiring a part-time employee in-house. I show them my VA calculator. I explain that business owners do not have to pay for vacation, coffee breaks, downtime, social security, equipment or sick time. Why is it that not one of the dealers could explain to me from his perspective why my requests were being denied? Perhaps I might have understood. I am willing to listen.

References Do Help

I checked references but you know pool dealers are only going to give references for the folks that they did a good job for. (In fact it was one homeowner reference I checked out that advised me to get the paid receipts for the subcontractors.) So I take the references from other homeowners lightly. But I did listen carefully to other homeowners because sometimes a reference will say something that the dealer was not expecting the homeowner to say.  Some dealers do not use the Better Business Bureau as the fees are too expensive. That was bothersome. The only real credence I received was from the local county building permit department and the state, which is a must-check for anyone looking to build anything using a contractor.

Show Me Updated Pool Design Technology

One particular pool designer/salesman came to our home…now as I mentioned I run a virtual company and I use a laptop; this man travelled with the same. He came with a really slow Dell, and no battery so he had to hook-up in my home (not really a big problem, but I do look for updated technology) and a pool design program that he struggled to work with. He thought that creating the pool in front of us in 3-D would make us excited to sign the contract on the spot but I already knew what we wanted. I was unimpressed. I had 10 quotes and plans. He wasted our time. The computer was as slow as molasses. I could have drawn the pool faster on paper.

Another contractor sent me the plans using Microsoft Works, a program that is a pain to work in. He did not send me any pdfs or attachments. Everything had to be faxed, which is a pill as often the information I received was not dated (references need to be dated by the last few pools installed…not references from 2004 when pools were installed a plenty and construction was good). Often the faxed documents came through illegible. I was surprised at how many quotes, reference sheets, copies of workman’s comp and liability insurance were sent to potential customers either illegible or unable to open in most common document attachment software programs. Has this industry not updated its technology at all?

Pricing is All Over the Board

My last beef has to do with pricing. It was all over the board. This was a basic pool with a basic cage and deck. Nothing fancy and no extra cage supports to purchase to fit in an irregular square space. The space is simple and square. And yet, quotes for the same sized pool and cage ranged from a $1000 difference to over $5,000 difference.

I had to pick through the quotes to see what products they were offering. Some offered cartridge pool filters (be careful, replacement cartridges can be $130 or more) or diamaceous earth filters, which are less expensive to operate but are more expensive to sell. Bigger filters does not always mean better. When I mentioned my budget and what I wanted included such as Pebble Tec (colored pebbles that are blown into the ShotKrete) and a handrail, some could conveniently fit that into our budgeted price, while others charged extra. One dealer fit those items into the budget but got around that by telling us that he would dump the fill dirt into our yard (over the sod) instead of hauling that away. That was not on the quote. He only mentioned that in passing.

This is not one or two pool dealers I am referring to…this is many. Nearly all had some issue in pricing or quality or professionalism.

Buyer Beware.

Final thoughts of what I learned:

• Most contractors do not want to deal with anyone asking too many questions. If you ask too many questions, the assumption is that the homeowner does not want to work with you.
  
• If there were any questions about price, most pulled out the ‘…we have a good reputation…’ speech instead of taking the time to educate me on why their price was as stated.

 

• Most contractors make their money from the extras so any small-time pools projects are considered insignificant. Expect to be pushed a bill of goods and stacks of slick brochures.
  
• If contractors know you are working on other pool quotes, they will drop you in heartbeat.

 

• Most homeowners do not shop around for quotes so when a dealer shows up, they expect that you will sign the contract. When I called the references, nearly every homeowner stated they did not shop for quotes. That actually surprised me.
  

We have one last pool contractor appointment this Friday, as I have exhausted every dealer who is still open for business in our area. I’ll follow-up this blog with a final assessment. Perhaps this pool dealer might be the one. If not, then another hot, Florida summer will be spent indoors…
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Janine Gregor

In 2008, Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice area ranked 11 in the country for lawsuit foreclosures. Due to the excess in the courts, 12th Judicial Circuit Chief Judge Lee Haworth put a new rule into place.  The lenders’ law firms must meet with the homeowners to discuss alternatives to foreclosing. The attorneys must appear, physically, in court. But even with this requirement, of the 79 foreclosure cases set for hearings last week, only 5 attorneys showed up in court representing the lenders. 

Foreclosures In Manatee County – BayNews9 Report 4/9/2009 from Your Virtual Wizard on Vimeo.

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So basically, this law was ignored. So now the Judge is clamping down and is fining lenders’ attorneys who do not show up in court.  Beginning in March, they must appear in person; and not just on the phone as was the usual practice.  

 

Interestingly, only a few law firms actually represent lenders in the state of Florida.  They are not located in Sarasota and Manatee counties, so they usually appear in local courts via telephone to save money.

I really do believe Judge Haworth might have something here.

Law firms will now have to hire local attorneys (stimulate the local economy) to attend the foreclosure hearings. But this also means that the lenders have to spend more time making sure the “checklist of requirements are met”; which, according to the Judge, includes abiding by “…the requirement to meet with homeowners within 45 days after the foreclosure is filed.”

Most homeowners who face foreclosure usually want lower payments or lower rates in order to save their homes. However, lenders are so backed-up with foreclosures that homeowners have to wait months to receive a call from the lenders to work out any negotiations.  And in some cases homeowners never receive a call from the lender until the case is actually in front of a judge. The Herald-Tribune reporter ads, “The lack of communication makes it impossible for a homeowner to question a debt, or to work out an arrangement other than a foreclosure until the case is in front of a judge.”  By then, the homeowner is out and has moved on.
 
Judge Haworth’s newest penalty requires the lenders’ attorneys to appear in court AND forces the lenders to communicate earlier in the foreclosure process with the homeowner.  Judge Haworth says, “I just think it’s important homeowners have an intelligent conversation with guys from the other side to see if there’s a way they can save their home.  It’s too important an issue to ignore.”

I learned that the law firms who represent the lenders contract the foreclosure cases in “bulk at a flat rate”.  There is an enticement to get these cases through the court system rather quickly so they can be paid.  However, as the article indicates the ‘line attorneys’ do not have the authority to make negotiations with homeowners to avoid foreclosures so it is inevitable that the foreclosure will occur any way.  This also means communication between lender and homeowner is further stalled.

Another interesting fact from this article is that two-thirds of all the mortgages in the past eight years have essentially turned into bonds.  This means that a mortgage might be split between four different trusts that oversee the bonds.  Apparently, these bonds then have different criteria for when to negotiate and when to foreclose.  Hillard, a former investment banker is quoted, “They would have to get authority from four different entities to settle these cases.”  

With more than a 600 percent increase in mortgage foreclosures since 2006, forecasts in this area seem rather bleak but I applaud Judge Haworth’s plan to financially force lenders’ attorneys to show up in court.  This is definitely a step in the right direction to at least open up negotiations between homeowners and lenders. If anything, it will get homeowners the opportunity to work with lenders’ earlier in the foreclosure process and possibly prevent cases from even getting in front of the Judge.

You can read the full article here .

 
Janine